John: [00:03:44] From my recollection, I told her pretty early on, probably immediately after dental school. I told her that I was about $450,000 in debt, totaling from undergrad and dental school as well, and that was about it. That was the first time I told her.
Ramit Sethi: [00:04:05] What was her reaction when you told her that number?
John: [00:04:07] Her reaction, I remember, was it was a lot just because compared to hers, I felt like she had some help from her family, which is awesome. I admire her mom a lot. So, her reaction was one of surprise.
Ramit Sethi: [00:04:22] Yesterday, right before this call, they filled out a questionnaire, where they included their financial details. Wendy didn’t know how much debt they actually had, and when she saw the number, let’s just say, she was surprised.
Wendy: [00:04:36] He was filling out the questionnaire. I think that’s when I was like, oh, yeah, so how much is that number now? And I’m expecting it to be way less, because we finished dental school 10-plus years. So then, when I heard the number get bigger, and I was like, oh, no. So, I guess recently-
Ramit Sethi: [00:04:53] Yeah. What was your feeling when you heard that number higher than it used to be, not lower?
Wendy: [00:05:02] Trepidation. Yeah, fear. It’s like I want to cry like, oh, my God, how come it’s not getting any lower?
Ramit Sethi: [00:05:12] Did you two talk about it when you heard that number?
Wendy: [00:05:17] Kind of. I think he was just like, it’s okay, it’s fine, it’ll be fine. He was just kind of like, it’ll be okay, Wendy. Like it’s my problem. I’m going to take care of it.
Ramit Sethi: [00:05:30] Notice that tactic, one partner telling the other, don’t worry about it, and then layering on, it’s my problem, which isn’t very satisfying in a relationship with two people. When you hear that, how do you react to that?
Wendy: [00:05:47] It’s definitely annoying.
Ramit Sethi: [00:05:50] What do you mean?
Wendy: [00:05:51] I’m on the side, saying like, I want to help you, like we’re a family, and he’s like, I’m this macho man, I can take care of myself.
Ramit Sethi: [00:06:01] Lots of men are raised with a deep belief that we have to take care of our family financially. And until recently, that was very, very common. That belief is so deep, it’s so invisible that I call it an invisible script.
Ramit Sethi: [00:06:15] Are you a macho man?
John: [00:06:17] No, I don’t consider myself to be a macho man. I felt like it was something that I chose to undertake. It was my responsibility. Even before we got married, even before we got engaged, I felt like this is my choice, it’s my responsibility, so why would I knowingly have my wife undertake that responsibility, too? Because she’s already paying her own loans, and she’s almost done, right? So, why in the hell would I want to add even more onto her plate?